Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

What happens when clean energy starts to outgrow fossil fuels at scale? Is it right to call China an electrostate? And how long will we be reliant on hydrocarbons?

This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Lord Browne of Madingley — former CEO of BP and one of the earliest voices inside Big Oil to publicly call for emissions reductions from fossil fuels.  

Recorded in front of a live audience in London, the discussion explores how geopolitics, energy security, AI, and rising global anxiety are reshaping the path to decarbonisation. Lord Browne ref...

What happens when a nation’s energy security rests on volatile global gas markets? Why does the UK pay market prices for some of the world’s cheapest-to-produce gas? And is now the moment to rethink decades of “leave it to the market” dogma?

This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Seb Kennedy, energy journalist and founder of Energy Flux, to unpack the turbulent geopolitics of natural gas, the coming LNG glut, and why the UK–Norway relationship sits at the heart of Britain’s energy affordability crisis.

Drawing on their recent joint...

What does it take to build Europe’s largest and most sustainable data-centre campus, from an empty plot of land to a 1.2-gigawatt giant of AI? How do you future-proof a facility when chip technology is evolving at breakneck speed? And what happens when the site of former coal-fired power plant becomes a global hub for AI?

In this special, on-location episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich visits Sines, Portugal, where Start Campus is transforming the site of a decommissioned coal plant into a next-generation data-centre campus that once finished will be Europe’s largest data centre. 

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What happens when the world’s most ambitious climate state runs head-on into a hostile federal government? Can California still lead the clean-energy transition while battling rising costs, wildfires and the Trump government’s sweeping tariffs? And what does a “pragmatic reset” on climate policy look like when the stakes have never been higher?

This week on Cleaning Up Bryony Worthington sits down with Liane Randolph, former Chair of the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and longtime public servant, shaping California’s climate, energy, and air-quality strategy. Across roles spanning the Public Utilities Commission and state natural resources...

What does it take to future-proof Europe’s electricity grid? How do you finance €65 billion in infrastructure without driving up consumer electricity costs? And can the permitting process be sped up to become fast enough for the energy transition?

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Tim Meyerjürgens, CEO of TenneT Germany, the country’s largest transmission system operator, to explore the physics and finance behind decarbonising Europe’s power networks.

From billion-euro transmission lines to the domestic and international politics of connecting the North Sea’s vast offshore wind potential with German...

Is green hydrogen a ‘miracle fuel’ or an expensive illusion? Can we decarbonize without it? And what happens when hydrogen hype meets hard economics?

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich debates Erik Rakhou, author of Touching Hydrogen Future, in a no-holds-barred discussion moderated by Andrew Critchlow of S&P Global Commodity Insights.

Together, they contest one of the most contentious topics in energy today: hydrogen. Liebreich argues that hydrogen is plagued by physics-driven cost barriers and limited real-world applications, while Rakhou defends its potential as a critical tool for industrial decarbonization, energy resilience, and long...

What if the energy transition isn’t about sacrifice and belt-tightening, but abundance? Are electrified technologies ready to replace the polluting fossil fuel system we’re so reliant on? And what will it mean for western nations if they can’t keep up with China? 

In this special bonus episode of Cleaning Up, recorded live in Berlin, Michael Liebreich sits down with Kingsmill Bond, strategist at Ember, to unpack The Electrotech Revolution, a powerful new framing of the global shift from a fossil-fuel economy to an electrified, efficient, and inevitable clean energy system.

Together, Kingsmill and Mic...

This week on Cleaning Up, we welcome back Rachel Kyte, the UK’s Special Representative for Climate Change, for a deep dive into the shifting landscape of global climate diplomacy ahead of COP30 in Belém, Brazil.

Rachel brings decades of experience — from leading Sustainable Energy for All under Ban Ki-Moon to senior roles at the World Bank and IFC — to unpack how countries, investors, and institutions are navigating the new era of implementation.

Together, Michael and Rachel explore:

Global shipping contributes about 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions, equivalent to the total emissions of Japan or Germany. The sector, including its contribution to climate change, is governed by the International Maritime Organisation or the IMO, which is a UN agency based in London in the United Kingdom.

Last week, the International Maritime Organisation gathered to vote on a proposal to reduce emissions from ships that had been agreed to in principle earlier this year. And ahead of the gathering, most people intimately involved in the process thought the proposal would pass. But that wasn’t the ca...

This summer, Michael Liebreich wrote two essays under the title of the Pragmatic Climate Reset. The first challenged the idea that the clean energy transition has failed. And the second challenged the clean energy and climate community to a reset, exploring eight areas which he thinks the transition has gone astray.

In this special episode, Bryony Worthington sits down with Michael Liebreich, to unpack Part 2 of “The Pragmatic Climate Reset.”

Michael lays out a bold vision for cutting through the noise — replacing ideology with realism, and paralysis with progress. From net zero targets and critical minera...

What does it take to rewire a nation’s energy system? Can we make the grid cleaner, smarter, and more resilient — without driving up bills? And how will the explosion of AI data centres reshape the future of electricity demand?

This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with John Pettigrew, outgoing CEO of National Grid, for a candid conversation marking the end of his 35-year career. Together they explore the UK’s £60 billion plan to deliver Clean Power by 2030, the race to build transmission for offshore wind, the growing strain from AI-driven electricity demand, and les...

What does it take for India to deliver electricity to hundreds of millions while simultaneously building a fast-growing clean energy system? Can it overcome its fossil dependence to secure its energy futures with renewables? And how will India’s development choices shape the global climate fight in the decades ahead?

India, like China, is home to over a billion people, and is highly reliant on imported fossil fuels and domestic coal. But unlike China, it still has a very rural population and has not yet experienced the rapid rise in per capita energy consumption that accompanied China’s re...

Why should we care about coral reefs? What happens when they collapse? And is there still hope for their survival?

In this episode of Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with coral reef ecologist Dr. Katharina Fabricius, who has witnessed six mass bleaching events on the Great Barrier Reef over her three decades of research.

From the “seven sins of climate change” threatening reefs — heat waves, acidification, storms, nutrient runoff, and more — to the resilience and surprising adaptability of corals, Katharina offers a sobering yet hopeful look at the future of our oceans. Together, they explore...

The election of Donald Trump to a second term as President marked a turning point in the politics of climate action – not just in the US, but around the world.

The airwaves are suddenly awash with commentators, claiming that the transition has failed, that it was always a fool’s errand, and that we must resign ourselves to a fossil-based future forever.

The narratives of failure all revel in pointing out that we have not seen dramatic cuts in fossil fuel use globally, consistent with keeping the temperature increase to 1.5C, and are not on trac...

Is the future of clean energy and climate solutions brighter than we think? In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Hannah Ritchie — Deputy Editor at Our World in Data, researcher at the Oxford Martin School, and author of her new book, Clearing the Air.

In Clearing the Air, Hannah tackles 50 of the most common myths and misconceptions about climate solutions, from “Isn’t climate action too polarised and politically divisive to fix?” to “What happens when the wind doesn’t blow?” and “Won’t the world run out of minerals?” Hannah dives into the data behind renewabl...

What happens when cheap solar flips the script on climate sceptics? Can pumped hydro really deliver the long-duration storage we need? And is “hope” a dangerous comforter in the race to net zero?

In this season opener of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Malcolm Turnbull — former Prime Minister of Australia, lawyer, statesman, energy investor, and climate champion. From leading Australia through fierce political battles over climate policy to now spearheading renewable projects through Turnbull Renewables, he offers a rare insider’s perspective on the global clean energy transition.

Turnbull and Liebreich explore the clash be...

This episode was originally broadcast in February 2024

Bryony returns with Bonny Simi, President of Operations at Joby Aviation, where she's working on bringing to market a new civilian electric VTOL (eVTOL) aircraft. Prior to joining the team at Joby, Bonny held several operational and strategic roles at JetBlue Most notably, she founded and led JetBlue Technology Ventures, investing in improving the travel, hospitality, and transportation industries. As a pilot, Bonny has commanded Boeing, Airbus and Embraer aircraft at both United Airlines and JetBlue Airways. She is also an Emmy-nominated sports reporter and a 3-time Olympian in the...

This episode was originally broadcast in April 2022

Alex Honnold is one of the world’s best rock climbers, famous for his free solo ascents of big walls, including his 2017 first free solo of El Capitan in Yosemite.

Alex began studies in engineering at the University of California-Berkeley but dropped out to pursue his passion for climbing, living out of his van. He first attracted attention within the climbing community in 2008 when he became the first climber to free solo Half Dome in Yosemite. In 2012 he established the speed record for the Yosemite Triple Crown, climbing th...

What if the energy transition isn't a race, but a steady march toward the end of fossil fuel usage? Do we need to move more like the tortoise, and less like the hare? And in a world of competing narratives, who gets to define "pragmatism"?

In this season finale of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington unpack these questions as they review Season 15's most compelling conversations about energy transformation, and celebrate five years of Cleaning Up. 

They dissect the current political landscape, particularly the challenges facing clean energy in the United States, a...

In February, veteran fossil industry advisor Dan Yergin and two co-authors published a piece called The Troubled Transition. In it they dismiss the idea that there is or can ever be an energy transition, anchored on the fact that fossil fuels contributed 85% to so-called primary energy in 1990 and still contribute 80% today. 

Needless to say, their argument has been widely amplified by the oil and gas industry. They conclude with a demand for a new approach – which they call a “pragmatic path”. 

Pragmatism is needed, but not the pragmatism of defeat. Not the ‘pragmatism’ of believing fossil fuels...

Is the US about to enter a new era of energy inflation? Can technological progress outpace political regression? Are we witnessing the permanent end of America's climate ambitions?

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Ethan Zindler, former climate counselor to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, now head of countries and policy at BloombergNEF, to dissect the dramatic shifts in US energy policy. 

Fresh from the passage of the "One Big Beautiful Bill," Zindler reveals how recent legislation in the US could set back clean energy development by years, potentially undermining investments in w...

⁠If the UK can’t ditch fossil fuels, who can? What impact would more drilling in the North Sea have for UK energy prices? What does the end of the net zero consensus mean for UK energy policy?

This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Tessa Khan, founder of Uplift, a charity challenging the oil and gas industry's hold on UK energy policy. A lawyer turned campaigner, Khan offers incisive analysis of why the North Sea's fossil fuel era must end.

Drawing from her background in international human rights and development, Khan...

What if the key to solving our climate crisis lies beneath our feet? Could tiny fungal networks be the unsung heroes of carbon sequestration? And how might reimagining our relationship with fungi transform our understanding of life on Earth? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Merlin Sheldrake, author of the bestselling "Entangled Life," to explore the extraordinary world of fungi. Sheldrake reveals how these remarkable organisms are not just passive participants in our ecosystem, but active innovators that have been shaping our planet for a billion of years.

 From their crucial ro...

In a world where 17% of all electricity is generated from wind and solar and where 93% of all new capacity added to the grid is from renewables, it can be easy to forget that countries got their first wind and solar resources within just the last few years. 

And in fact, some countries are still waiting for their first. 

Today on Cleaning Up, we’re joined by Daniel Calderon, Founder and Managing Partner of Alcazar Energy Partners. Daniel has made it a specialty of going into countries overlooked by others, building their first wind and solar farm...

In 1849, when the Gold Rush hit California, the people who were certain to make money were not the miners, but the sellers of picks and shovels. Indeed, America's first millionaire, Samuel Brannan, made his fortune by adding huge margins to everyday items that suddenly become high in demand. 

Today's sellers of picks and shovels are those providing the hardware and infrastructure to the software and platform providers, and one company stands apart as the beneficiary of the recent boom times in artificial intelligence: Nvidia. 

They're currently among the top three listed companies in the US...

Oil and gas companies lie at the heart of the energy transition. To some, they are heroes, continuing to power human progress despite all the odds. To some, they are villains, responsible for the climate change that is devastating our planet. 

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich interviews Ben van Beurden, former CEO of Shell from 2014 to 2023. The conversation explores the complexities of the energy transition, climate change, and the role of oil and gas companies in addressing global emissions.

Van Beurden argues that there's no silver bullet solution to climate change, emphasizing the n...

What happens if the Amazon rainforest stops absorbing carbon and starts releasing it? Do we need geoengineering to help us cool an overheating planet? And how can developing countries balance environmental preservation with economic development?

This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Thelma Krug, a renowned Brazilian scientist and mathematician, and former vice chair of the IPCC, to explore these critical questions.

Krug offers an insider's perspective, drawing from her decades of experience monitoring the Amazon rainforest and participating in international climate negotiations.

The conversation ranges from the alarming...

What will it take to finally wean Europe off Russian gas? Can renewables help with grid stability? And is the EU making a mistake subsidising hydrogen? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with EU Energy and Housing Commissioner Dan Jørgensen to dissect the continent's energy transformation. 

In this wide ranging interview recorded at the Berlaymont building in Brussels — the home of the European Commission — Liebreich and Jørgensen delve into critical topics including reducing dependency on Russian energy, the economics of renewable technologies, the role of nuclear power, and the contentious economic...

The world's electricity system is transforming: We're integrating more and more variable renewables. Fossil plants are running fewer hours. Demand is growing everywhere, including in the developed world, as we electrify transport and heating, and AI data centers elbow their way onto the grid. 

Some people find this very threatening but not Antonio Cammisecra, CEO of ContourGlobal. CounterGlobal is a leading independent power producer who is well on their way to transition away from coal to electricity production based on renewables and gas. 

Antonio joins Michael on Cleaning Up to discuss how to build resilience an...

Billionaire iron magnate Andrew Forrest believes he's on the cusp of a breakthrough to decarbonise shipping and heavy industry using hydrogen. 

As the Executive Chairman of the Fortescue, one of the world's largest iron ore companies, Andrew Forrest is not an easy to pigeonhole industrial billionaire. He built Fortescue into a hugely successful company, partly thanks to his belief in taking unconventional paths. 

After a serious accident meant he had to take a break from work, he enrolled in a PhD in marine science. For over a decade now, has been very vocally committed to ge...

Have the bond markets become a new form of global governance? Are we witnessing the end of US economic exceptionalism? And how does game theory relate to cooperation on net-zero?

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with renowned economist Mohamed El-Erian to unpack the complex intersections of global finance, politics, and climate change. 

El-Erian offers insights into the current economic landscape, exploring how central banks, trade tensions, and technological innovations are reshaping our understanding of international economics. 

From the rise of China's green technology sector and the scrapping of Canada’s ca...

Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels? 

"Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost €65 trillion extra by 2050. 

Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the globe strives for net zero, while also speeding up the transition to renewables. The argument centres on what to do with the last few percent of power su...

Geothermal seems to have found new favour under Donald Trump's presidency, but can it ever live up to its potential? Will the oil and gas industry reinvent itself before becoming obsolete? And how might geothermal energy change the global energy landscape?

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington talks to Jamie Beard, founder of Project InnerSpace, about why geothermal energy has never lived up to its hype, and whether it has the potential do so.  Currently generating less than 1% of global energy, Beard believes that geothermal could become a game-changing technology that can leverage existing drilling expertise f...

When Russia unleashed its illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, gas prices in Europe spiked by a factor of 10, driving a wave of bankruptcies and restructurings of European energy companies. Uniper was one of those. 

Uniper is one of Germany's largest energy companies. It is active across more than 40 countries and has 19.5 GW of power generation capacity to its name. It was one of the funders of the built-but-never-used Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline that connects Russia to Germany and, for most of its history, was heavily reliant on Russian gas. 

So when the gas...

In 100 short days, the world has transformed. Since the reelection of President Donald Trump, US federal climate policy has largely been abandoned, with the government seeking to reopen coal-fired power plants and lower environmental standards. 

An escalating trade war and global tariffs has sent the rest of the world reeling and threatened the global financial system with collapse. China has come under particular fire, but the US has also targeted its closest allies and neighbours — Canada, Mexico and the EU — with tariffs. 

Any sense of certainty has been thrown out of the window as a more i...

In Sierra Leone, a 20-minute power cut can be the difference between life and death for newborn babies. 

In 2013, an extraordinary doctor called Dr Niall Conroy set up a neonatal intensive care unit at the Bo Government Hospital, in Sierra Leone's second largest city, and set about training the staff to give the best possible care to the desperately vulnerable babies who were admitted. But there was one problem he couldn't solve: electricity. 

Babies need warmth, and that means electrically powered incubators, and they need oxygen, which means oxygen separators, and the nurses need light in...

Google has one of the most ambitious climate targets in the tech world, but what happens if it falls short of its goals? How does the company balance innovation with environmental responsibility? And can AI really help reduce emissions? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Kate Brandt, Google's Chief Sustainability Officer, to unpack these critical questions. Brandt offers an insider's view of how one of the world's most influential companies is tackling the climate crisis, from tackling its own emissions to the impact of misinformation on its platform. Brandt has a fascinating background, h...

The UK is an extraordinary case study in how to cut greenhouse gas pollution successfully. Since 1990, the country has more than halved its greenhouse gas emissions, while the economy has grown by over 80%. 

The Climate Change Act, passed in 2008, has helped steer the UK towards its net-zero goals, setting five yearly carbon budgets that are specifically designed to be ambitious but flexible, with lots of options available to the government to meet the targets. 

Joining this week’s episode of Cleaning Up is Emma Pinchbeck, the new CEO of the Climate Change Committee (CCC), the orga...

How does Europe get cheap energy again? Are climate goals at odds with the need to remain economically competitive? Are we about to see an empowered and emboldened Europe, ready to take on China and the US?

Barely five years into the 2020s, this decade is already shaping up to be one of the most turbulent since the Second World War. As we record this episode, the US has just slapped 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum, prompting swift retaliation from Europe and Canada.

The energy landscape is just as volatile. While the US seems set...

As the U.S. swings a budgetary axe at the federal government, one of the biggest casualties is climate science. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) faces a brutal 20% workforce reduction—jeopardizing critical research just when we need it most. So, what’s really at stake? And is Donald Trump Making America Dumb Again?

This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington takes us deep inside the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, where scientists are on the front lines of tracking our planet’s most urgent environmental challenges.

Meet Ralph Keeling, the scientist carrying forward his fa...

In February, Germany elected a new government. Friedrich Merz emerged as the new leader, but what are his energy and climate policies, and will Germany remain a climate leader in Europe and beyond?

Joining Cleaning Up this week is Patrick Graichen, a former Energy and Climate minister in the last government, representing the Green Party. Prior to entering government, Patrick ran the think tank Agora Energiewende, working on energy from 2001 to 2012. With his deep expertise Patrick offers unique insights into the evolving political landscape and its potential impact on Germany, Europe, and beyond. 

Patrick has w...

How can the U.S. government bridge the gap between clean energy innovation and large-scale deployment? Will the Trump administration accelerate progress or put up roadblocks for clean tech? And how can the U.S. stay competitive with China, which already holds a commanding lead in the sector? 

Jigar Shah joins Cleaning Up fresh from his four-year tenure as Director of the U.S. Department of Energy's Loan Programs Office (LPO). Appointed in 2021, Shah transformed the once-obscure office into a clean-tech commercialization powerhouse, committing more than $100 billion in loans to U.S.-based companies. But with a n...

How can climate activists be more successful in 2025? And where have they gone wrong? 

Kumi Naidoo has a storied career as an activist. At just 15 years old, he started out as an anti-apartheid campaigner and organiser in South Africa, before fleeing the country and attending Oxford University as a Rhodes Scholar, where he received a PhD for his research into the resistance movement in South Africa. 

After Nelson Mandela was freed, he returned home to help organise Mandela’s campaign to become President, and later became the head of both Greenpeace and Amnesty International. 

Nai...

The global south needs to build out vast amounts of clean energy, and requires hundreds of billions of dollars annually to do. And yet, only a fraction of the investment going into clean energy and the net-zero transition is flowing into those growth markets. So why are so few investing?

Lucy Heintz is partner and head of energy infrastructure at Actis, whose most recent Energy Fund represents over $6 billion of investable capital. She is a driving force behind the small slice of investment which does address clean energy in growth markets. 

Lucy joins Cleaning Up t...

Just a few short years ago, sustainable finance and sustainable investing were all the rage. The Glasgow Financial Alliance For Net Zero (GFANZ) boasted financial players controlling $140 trillion. 

Things have not been quite as smooth since: There's been extensive pushback, starting from the red states in the US, but spreading from there against ESG. And of course, sustainable finance and sustainable investing are firmly in the crosshairs of the new Trump administration. 

David Blood is the co-founder and senior partner at Generation Investment Management, and he's been a driver behind a number of the most su...

Aviation accounts for around 2-3% of global emissions, and is showing no sign of decreasing. There has been a lot of focus on replacement fuels, but no real paradigm shift in the industry. Anders Forslund has a plan to change that. 

Anders is the CEO of Heart Aerospace, the Swedish airplane developers who've recently established an R&D facility in California to develop their 30 seater hybrid-electric plane. Later this year, their all-electric prototype will take to the skies in its first test flight. 

While there are a number of companies innovating in the aerospace sector, in...

Will AI be a disaster for the climate, or a saviour in disguise? How is AI reshaping power needs around the world? And does a lack of clean electricity spell the end of the AI dream, or a new round of fossil-fuel reliant data centres? 

All this, and more in the audio adaptation of Michel's article for BloombergNEF: Generative AI: The Power and the Glory. 

Read the full piece at: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-generative-ai-the-power-and-the-glory/

Leadership Circle: 

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alc...

How can $10 billion be spent most effectively to address the climate and nature crises? What role can philanthropy play in driving systemic change? And how can new technologies like AI be leveraged to accelerate climate solutions? 

This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Dr. Andrew Steer, President and CEO of the Bezos Earth Fund, to explore these critical questions. Established in 2020 with a $10 billion commitment from Jeff Bezos, the Bezos Earth Fund is on a mission to spend this capital by 2030 - the "decisive decade" for climate and nature. 

Andrew shares in...

Happy New Year and welcome to Season 14 of Cleaning Up. From the future of nuclear to growing tensions between China and the USA, we're off with a bang with a conversation between hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington. They reflect on the key trends of 2024, and looking ahead to what might be on the cards in 2025, from China's rapid electrification to political upheaval in the US. Bryony and Michael get stuck into the challenges and opportunities around the build out of nuclear power, the potential of biofuels in aviation, and what we might expect from COP30 in Brazil later...

Happy New Year from all of us here at Cleaning Up. This week we’re bringing you one from our archive of almost 200 episodes. It’s a conversation Bryony Worthington had with Naomi Oreskes in October 2023,  her very first episode as a co-host for Cleaning Up.  

Naomi Oreskes is the Henry Charles Lea Professor of the History of Science and Affiliated Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences at Harvard University. A world-renowned earth scientist, historian and public speaker, she is the author of the best-selling book, Merchants of Doubt, and a leading voice on the role of science...

Hello, I’m Michael Liebreich, and this is Cleaning Up.

I hope you are having a good break over the holiday season, and getting to spend some quality time with your family. I’m in Switzerland, where it has just snowed about a meter in 24 hours.

In case you’re missing your regular dose of climate content, we’re starting something new, which we’re calling Cleaning Up Redux. During the break between seasons, we’ll be republishing some gems from our back catalogue, which now covers nearly 200 episodes.

To kick us off, today we’ll...

Are we losing the argument that climate change requires action and investment? Can we balance the need for affordable energy with the costs of decarbonizing hard-to-abate sectors like steel, cement and aviation? And how can we counter the spread of misinformation and populist narratives that undermine support for clean energy? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Lord Adair Turner for a deep dive into the state of the energy transition at the end of 2024. They discuss the remarkable progress in technologies like solar, batteries and electrification, but also the political and economic challenges of d...

Climate philanthropies are playing an increasingly important role in funding climate action. In 2023, an estimated $9-16 billion was spent by philanthropies on programs to mitigate climate change. But how do they choose how to spend it? And what role should philanthropy play in catalysing innovation? 

Bryony Worthington sits down with Greg de Temmerman, Deputy CEO of the Quadrature Climate Foundation, to explore these critical questions. As a former plasma physicist who worked on the world's largest nuclear fusion project before transitioning into philanthropy, Greg brings a unique perspective to the climate challenge. 

Greg shares his in...

What was achieved at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan? Where will the promised $300 billion come from, and how will it be spent? And what reforms are needed to make the COP process more effective and impactful? 

This week, host Michael Liebreich sits down with James Cameron, an international climate lawyer who has been involved with the COP process since before COPs were COPs. James shares his insights into the challenges and dynamics of these high-stakes global talks, from the crucial role of small island states to the difficulties of bridging the divide between developed and developing nations. James a...

As we race towards a future powered by AI and data centres, how will the insatiable demand for energy impact the environment? With the richest companies ploughing billions into energy generation, might there be some unexpected upsides for the climate transition? And can exponential technologies address the climate crisis on a finite planet? 

This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, to explore the complex relationship between exponential growth, climate change, and the societal implications of transformative technologies. Michael and Azeem delve into the promises and pitfalls of a...

How can behavioural science and psychology be leveraged to drive meaningful change around climate action? What unintended consequences might arise from heavy-handed government mandates versus more subtle interventions? And in the face of the climate crisis, is it ethical to actively promote the use of fossil fuels? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael welcomes Ogilvy UK Vice-chair Rory Sutherland to explore the role of psychology and behavioural science in tackling the climate challenge. Rather than relying solely on policy, regulations, and technological solutions, Sutherland argues that understanding human decision-making and tapping into our innate psychological drivers could b...

Is China's lead in clean technologies insurmountable? How will the Trump presidency shape relations with China? And when will China's emissions peak? 

Fatih Birol, head of the International Energy Agency, has said that 'almost every energy story is essentially a China story. But it's a complicated story that has been powered by vast supplies of coal. China's economy has grown rapidly, with per capita levels of energy consumption now matching Europe's, making it the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gasses. 

At the same time, China has increased the share of electricity and total energy to ar...

How will the Trump administration's policies impact the clean energy transition in the United States? What will be Elon Musk's role in shaping climate policy? And what are the geopolitical implications of the US withdrawing from the Paris Agreement? 

In this special episode of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the implications of the recent US election results and the potential impact on energy and climate policy. They explore the likely policy changes under a Trump administration, including potential cuts to clean technologies like offshore wind and electric vehicles, as well as the p...

Could we save billions by simply reducing energy waste? How can we power the vast, energy-hungry growth of AI without sacrificing climate goals? And is Europe doomed to high energy costs and deindustrialisation? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Jonathan Maxwell, CEO and founder of Sustainable Development Capital LLP (SDCL), for the third time on Cleaning Up. Jonathan shares his perspective on the urgent need to address energy efficiency and waste, drawing from the themes explored in his book "The Edge." Jonathan and Michael delve into SDCL's innovative approach to providing on-site energy s...

How difficult is it to power a boat just with electricity? Is an electric outboard as reliable as a fossil-fuel one when taken out to sea? And just how much better is an electric engine for reducing pollution and noise? 

Around the world there are tens of millions of small boats, from high-performance luxury craft to workhorse fishing vessels, nearly all of which run on fossil-fuel powered engines. But with the rapid advancements in electric vehicles, a small group of companies are now turning their minds to cracking the boating problem, inventing electric engines that are quieter, l...

Is the shift to electric vehicles really slowing down? Are people losing interest in EVs, or is there more to the story? How will changes in the global automotive industry impact the net-zero transition? And If no one wants EVs, why do we need tariffs?

This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Colin McKerracher, Head of Clean Transport at BloombergNEF, to unpack the latest trends and dynamics in the electric vehicle market from cars to trucks to two wheelers. They dive deep into the regional differences, the strategies of European automakers, t...

China has taken a commanding lead in manufacturing solar panels, wind turbines, electric vehicles and batteries, and is central to the green energy transition. Now, the US is hoping to catch up, and has spent almost $500 billion from the Inflation Reduction Act to bolster the energy transition and domestic manufacturing. Is it enough to create-long lasting change? 

This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Ethan Zindler, the Climate Counselor to US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. Zindler provides a rare insider's perspective on the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act, the Treasury's new Climate H...

Ocean's absorb one third of the CO2 we are recklessly pumping into the atmosphere, as well as 90% of the heat. What would happen if that were to stop?

The oceans define every aspect of our planet's physical systems, its ecosystems, human history and human culture. They also define the planet's future. Oceans represent an almost unexplored frontier in the fight against climate change, whether as a host for offshore wind farms, an enhanced carbon sink, a source for critical minerals or a route for high-voltage DC cables. But could there be unintended consequences? 

This week o...

Is the key to clean energy the heat beneath our feet? Could advances in the fossil-fuel extraction industry hold the key to providing 24/7 clean power? And can a Texan CEO and former oil exec bring geothermal to the masses? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Cindy Taff, a 35-year veteran of Shell, where she was Vice President of Unconventional Drilling, leading a team of 350 people with a budget of over $1 billion. Since leaving Shell, Cindy has made a bold pivot to the world of geothermal energy, and is now CEO of Sage Geosystems, w...

What will it take for electric vehicles to truly dominate the transportation landscape? Can traditional automakers adapt quickly enough to the EV revolution, or will new players seize the opportunity? And how close are we to the holy grail of fully autonomous driving? 

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Dr. Andy Palmer, a pioneer in the electric vehicle industry. With over 45 years of experience in the automotive sector, Andy has witnessed the industry's transformation firsthand - from his early days as an apprentice to senior leadership roles at companies like Nissan and Aston M...

As climate impacts mount, pressure is building on policymakers to find ways to alleviate the crisis. One controversial option being explored is geoengineering - direct human interventions to cool the planet. But can we safely and effectively implement these large-scale climate remedies?

 Bryony Worthington sits down with Kelly Wanser, Executive Director of the nonprofit SilverLining, which conducted early-stage experiments to improve the reflectivity of clouds in an experiment earlier this year. They discuss the different climate interventions being researched, the scientific and political challenges, and the critical need for robust evidence and governance to navigate these uncharted w...

Germany is one of the most bullish countries in the world on clean/green hydrogen. The home of the Energiewende is not just one of the most committed countries in the world to reaching net zero, it is of course a highly industrialised nation with a very energy-intensive economy. As if that were not enough, it had one third of its energy supply yanked out from under it as a result of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. 

Green hydrogen has become one of the mainstays of efforts to keep the lights on as the country replaces nuc...

How does a startup become the largest provider of electricity in the UK in less than a decade? What is locational pricing and how could it encourage more renewables? And is it possible to achieve a zero-carbon electricity system by 2030? 

Welcome to the first episode of Season 13 of Cleaning Up, in which Michael Liebreich sits down with Greg Jackson, the founder and CEO of Octopus Energy, to uncover the incredible story behind the company's rapid growth and its transformation into a global energy powerhouse. 

Greg and Michael explore how Octopus Energy has gone from a sm...

In the final episode of Season 12, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the key conversations and developments in the net-zero transition over the past three months, including: 

The solar industry has experienced a meteoric rise over the past two decades, growing from a small cottage industry to one of the leading technologies in the energy transition. It’s not been a smooth ride, and there’ve been plenty of bankruptcies on the way, from Solyndra to Suntech, but more than half a terawatt of new solar is now being built each year and the industry is still growing rapidly. So how did we get here, and how far do we have to go? 

Michael Liebreich is joined by BloombergNEF lead solar analyst Jenny Chase to ch...

Who are the merchants of doubt and how can their narrative be countered? How much money does it cost to get someone to take action on climate change?

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington is joined by John Marshall, the founder of the Potential Energy Coalition, a marketing firm that uses data-driven marketing techniques to accelerate the energy transition and climate action. They discuss:

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with mechanical engineer and YouTube creator Dr Rosemary "Rosie" Barnes to discuss the critical role of engineering in addressing climate change. Rosie shares insights from her work developing clean energy technologies and her popular channel "Engineering with Rosie," where she tackles topics like wind turbine design, the hydrogen debate, and the nuclear power discussion in Australia through the lens of engineering. Rosie and Michael dive into the engineering challenges and solutions driving the energy transition, from optimising wind turbine size to navigating the politics around nuclear power. They also explore...

Electric vehicles are finally becoming more mainstream, but this hasn’t stopped a flood of negative stories and political attempts to scare people away from making the switch to better, more cost efficient vehicles. So is the EV revolution now inevitable? Bryony Worthington sits down with Ben Nelmes, the Chief Executive of New Automotive, a UK-based not for profit focused on the clean energy transition in road transport. Ben shares his insights on the UK and European electric vehicle (EV) markets, including:

With the UK general election tomorrow, the Cleaning Up team sits down with Dr Simon Evans of Carbon Brief to run through each party's manifesto, and what they say about UK climate and energy policy. With Labour widely predicted to win, will the UK's become an international leader on climate once more? How will GB Energy work? And where will all the money come from to fund the investments needed to turn the UK into a clean energy power house. 

Dr Simon Evans is the deputy editor and senior policy editor at Carbon Brief, a UK-based website c...

As the world transitions away from fossil fuels, one of the biggest challenges is decarbonizing industrial processes that require consistent, reliable sources of energy to produce high-temperatures. Typically these processes run on fossil gas, but now thermal batteries offer a solution by using electricity to store renewable energy in the form of heat. 

Anand Gopal, Executive Director of Policy Research at Californian think tank Energy Innovation, joins Baroness Bryony Worthington to discuss his team's research on using thermal batteries to provide heat for manufacturing. Or as he calls them, hot rocks in a box. By storing intermittent s...

Depending on who you ask, methane is either a useful transition fuel to a low-carbon future, or a super polluter. The science of methane says that for natural gas to have a lower climate footprint than other fossil fuels, particularly coal, there can be leakage of no more than 3.2% from end to end. Yet studies across the US show wildly different leakage rates. One of the most influential, by Robert Howarth of Cornell University, puts it at 4.8%, making methane worse for the environment than coal. The EPA tells a different story, and says leakage rates are just 0.93%. All of...

Has science cracked the code on mass producing realistic meat substitutes? Or are lab-gown alternative proteins an impossible dream? In this week's episode of Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with president of the Good Food Institute, Bruce Friedrich, to explore the future of food. Friedrich details his vision for a more sustainable food system through technologies like plant-based and cultivated meat and outlines the promising progress and significant challenges remaining in scaling these novel proteins. Worthington and Friedrich debate the roles of policy, public opinion, and big agriculture in determining whether alternative proteins can truly transform our...

As everyone knows, battery prices are plummeting and manufacturing volumes are soaring, whether for EVs or for grid-connected storage. And everyone knows there's a problem: only 5% of lithium-ion batteries are recycled. The rest go to landfill, right? Wrong. This week's guest on Cleaning Up is the world's preeminent expert on battery recycling. Hans Eric Melin is the Founder and Managing Director of Circular Energy Storage. 

Circular Energy Storage is a London-based data collection and analytics consultancy focused on the lithium-ion battery end-of-life market. They help companies and organisations in the entire battery value chain to take better d...

Last week the leading lights of Europe's electricity industry gathered for the annual Eurelectric Power Summit at the Lagonissi Beach Resort just outside Athens. The conference - under the hashtag this year of #lights on - lasted two days and covered the key issues facing Europe's and the world's power sectors. Two topics in particular stood out: the need to accelerate the build out of transmission, and the pressures and opportunities offered by digitization and AI. At the event, Eurelectric published a brace of reports on these two topics. On the final day of the conference, Michael caught up...

China's policies that direct capital towards cleaner industries have been game changing, and this week we're continuing the China theme, sharing two conversations Bryony had earlier this month at a conference at Xiamen University in Fujian Province. China's role in the clean energy transition could not be more important. The think tank Ember's latest report on the state of the global electricity transition states: over half of the world's new wind and solar power capacity last year was added in China, and together with hydro and nuclear, clean electricity in China now meets 35% of their electricity demand. And yet...

The 5th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial in Tokyo announced that by 2030, the world would produce and use 90 million tonnes of renewable and low-carbon hydrogen. Then, last year, the 6th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial not only reiterated the 90 million tonne target, but went further, promising that the overall market for hydrogen would grow to 150 million tonnes by 2030. All very exciting, and it helped to ensure that hydrogen was one of the hot topics at COP 28 in Dubai a few months later. But these targets are unachievable. The issue is simple: it's money. The biggest challenge facing low emission hydrogen is that it...

The 5th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial in Tokyo announced that by 2030, the world would produce and use 90 million tonnes of renewable and low-carbon hydrogen. Then, last year, the 6th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial not only reiterated the 90 million tonne target, but went further, promising that the overall market for hydrogen would grow to 150 million tonnes by 2030. All very exciting, and it helped to ensure that hydrogen was one of the hot topics at COP 28 in Dubai a few months later. But these targets are unachievable. The issue is simple: it's money. The biggest challenge facing low emission hydrogen is that it...

Up this week is Simon Holmes à Court, the Australian investor and philanthropist with a passion for using data to change the world. 

In 2022, the federal elections in Australia delivered an upset, as around a third of the electorate turned their back on the established parties and voted in seven new independent MPs taking the total to 10. Simon was responsible for a crowdfunding initiative - Climate 200 - that supported 23 candidates in all, pledging to act on climate, political integrity and gender discrimination. He remains very involved in the challenge of pivoting Australia from a fossil fuel based economy to...

How can we build a more united climate movement? What should be the role of geoengineering? And how can indigenous voices be brought into the climate conversation?

Bryony puts these questions to model, actor, director, ambassador and businesswoman, Lily Cole. Lily's career began at age 14 when she was recruited as a model, pitching her into the high-octane world of fashion. She remains a self-confessed geek, however, and completed her studies including a degree from Cambridge University. In 2016, she started researching a book ‘Who Cares Wins,’ which was published in 2020. 

In both the book and the podca...

Welcome to Season 12 of Cleaning Up! If you want a sense of the trajectory of climate action, you have to understand China, and you have to understand finance. There is no one better to share insights on both than Dr Ma Jun, Founder and President of the Institute of Finance and Sustainability in Beijing.

Between 2014 and 2020, Dr Ma served as Chief Economist and then Member of the Monetary Policy Committee of the People’s Bank of China. Over the subsequent years, Dr Ma played a key role in the development of sustainable finance in China and around th...

Bryony and Michael round up the eleventh season of Cleaning Up this week. They explore the themes running through the episodes, from theories of change to innovation, and discuss the things that surprised them, the moments they liked (or didn't) and reasons for optimism for the transition. 

Links: 

Ep149: Material World - Ed Conway: https://www.cleaningup.live/material-world-ep149-ed-conway/ 

Ep150: Selling Sustainability - Solitaire Townsend: https://www.cleaningup.live/selling-sustainability-ep150-solitaire-townsend/

Ep151: Redesigning Mining - Mark Cutifani: https://www.cleaningup.live/redesigning-mining-ep151-mark-cutifani/ 

Ep152: Can We Have...

Bryony and Michael round up the eleventh season of Cleaning Up this week. They explore the themes running through the episodes, from theories of change to innovation, and discuss the things that surprised them, the moments they liked (or didn't) and reasons for optimism for the transition. 

Links: 

Ep149: Material World - Ed Conway: https://www.cleaningup.live/material-world-ep149-ed-conway/ 

Ep150: Selling Sustainability - Solitaire Townsend: https://www.cleaningup.live/selling-sustainability-ep150-solitaire-townsend/

Ep151: Redesigning Mining - Mark Cutifani: https://www.cleaningup.live/redesigning-mining-ep151-mark-cutifani/ 

Ep152: Can We Have...

Michael chats with Saul Griffith, Australian-born engineer, inventor, advisor, author and 2007 MacArthur "Genius". He specialises in clean and renewable energy technologies, and has founded a dozen technology companies across 20 years in Silicon Valley, as well as authoring 3 books, including `Electrify', and `The Big Switch'. He has recently turned his attention from Otherlab, his independent Research and Development lab, to policy work and writing, including founding Rewiring America and Rewiring Australia, non-partisan organisations dedicated to electrification and decarbonisation and the associated policy and regulatory implications of meeting our climate goals. 

Saul received his Ph.D. at MIT in t...

Bryony speaks to two fascinating guests, both specialising in methane emissions, their causes and impacts: Dr. Sebastien Biraud and Sharon Wilson.

Dr. Biraud is a biogeochemist, leading the Climate Sciences Department. Sebastien's work has taken him to the tropical rainforests of the Amazon, the great plains of the United States, and the Arctic tundra. He is currently co-leading/leading projects for the U.S. Department of Energy and the California Energy Commission. These projects involve integrating and applying high-precision greenhouse gas observations to advance research on the atmospheric carbon cycle and to enhance measurement, reporting, and verification...

This week, Michael presents the second part of his two-parter for Bloomberg New Energy Finance, exploring the bear and bull cases for the net zero transition. This week is the bull case: the "5 superheroes" of the transition, 5 forces/trends even more powerful than last week's "5 horsemen", which can prevail in the challenge of rapidly decarbonising the global economy. The 5 superheroes are: Exponential Growth, Systems Solutions, Great Power Competition, Disappearing Demand, and the Primary Energy Fallacy. And stay tuned until the end for a 6th "bonus" superhero!

This audioblog is based on Michael's Bloomberg New Energy Finance opinion...

Michael is solo this week on Cleaning Up, outlining the "5 horsemen" of the net-zero transition - the five greatest obstacles to the net zero transition. These 5 horsemen are: the economics of energy solutions, the electrical grid, the demand for critical mineral, political and social inertia, predatory delay by the powerful incumbents. This audioblog is based on Michael's Bloomberg New Energy Finance opinion piece of the same title.

Links

Read the original essay here: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder/

Read Michael's 2022 essay, 'The Quest for Resilience – What Could...

Michael is solo this week on Cleaning Up, outlining the "5 horsemen" of the net-zero transition which threaten to delay and undermine the transition. The 5 horsemen are: the economics of energy solutions, the electrical grid, the demand for critical mineral, political and social inertia, predatory delay by the powerful incumbents. This audioblog is based on Michael's Bloomberg New Energy Finance opinion piece of the same title.

Links

Read the original essay here: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder/

Read Michael's 2022 essay, 'The Quest for Resilience – What Could Possibly Go Wr...

Bryony returns with Bonny Simi, President of Operations at Joby Aviation, where she's working on bringing to market a new civilian electric VTOL (eVTOL) aircraft. Prior to joining the team at Joby, Bonny held several operational and strategic roles at JetBlue Most notably, she founded and led JetBlue Technology Ventures, investing in improving the travel, hospitality, and transportation industries. As a pilot, Bonny has commanded Boeing, Airbus and Embraer aircraft at both United Airlines and JetBlue Airways. She is also an Emmy-nominated sports reporter and a 3-time Olympian in the sport of Luge. 

She holds a BA i...

Michael returns to talk with legendary educator and inventor, Donald Sadoway, Professor Emeritus of Materials Chemistry at MIT. After earning his PhD in chemical metallurgy in 1977 at the University of Toronto, he joined the faculty at MIT where he spent 44 years. For 16 of those, he taught 3.091 (Introduction to Solid-State Chemistry)—and his animated lectures, peppered with references to music, art, and literature—doubtless contributed to the subject’s popularity. Among the many accolades bestowed on Professor Sadoway in his 44 years as a teacher and researcher at MIT was a compliment by Bill Gates: “best chemistry lessons anywhere. Unbelievable.” In 2012, for the in...

Tamsin Lishman joins Bryony this week to talk heat pumps. Tamsin is CEO of Kensa Group, a Cornwall-based manufacturer and installer of ground source heat pumps. Kensa is the UK's only manufacturer of ground source heat pumps. Both air source and ground source heat pumps are rapidly growing technologies, and Tamsin believes that Kensa's heat pumps can - and will - be deployed to electrify domestic heating in the UK. On a recent episode of Cleaning Up, Fatih Birol, Executive Director of the IEA, argued that heat pumps are "the closest thing to a silver bullet" we have in...

Michael sits down this week with Lauri Myllyvirta, co-founder and lead analyst at CREA - the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air. After working as a campaigner and then as an analyst at Greenpeace, Lauri helped set up CREA, an NGO that produces research reports on the trends, causes, health impacts, and solutions to air pollution. Importantly, CREA makes extensive reference to local-language evidence sources - helped by Lauri's impressive knowledge of European and Asian languages. 

Lauri has degrees in economics from Helsinki University and in environmental science from University of Jyvaskyla. 

 ...

Michael sits down this week with Lauri Myllyvirta, co-founder and lead analyst at CREA - the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air. After working as a campaigner and then as an analyst at Greenpeace, Lauri helped set up CREA, an NGO that produces research reports on the trends, causes, health impacts, and solutions to air pollution. Importantly, CREA makes extensive reference to local-language evidence sources - helped by Lauri's impressive knowledge of European and Asian languages. 

Lauri has degrees in economics from Helsinki University and in environmental science from University of Jyvaskyla. 

 ...

This week, Bryony is back, this time to talk to David Wallace-Wells. David is an American journalist and author who often writes about climate change. His 2017 article "The Uninhabitable Earth" for New York Magazine was the publication's most-read article in history. David then turned the article into a book of the same name, which was chosen as Book of the Year, 2019, by The Sunday Times, The Spectator and New Statesman. 

He has a BA in History from Brown University.

 Links 

Read David's original 2017 article here: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html 

...

This week, Michael's guest is Mark Cutifani, chairman of Vale Base Metals and formerly CEO of South African gold mining company, Ashanti, and British mining company, Anglo American. 

He was born and grew up in Wollongong, Australia. After leaving high school in 1976, he joined Coal Cliff colliery and enrolled in the University of Wollongong to complete a degree in Mining Engineering. He graduated in 1982, top of his class. After working for Coal Cliff, he joined Kalgoorlie Gold Mines, the Western Mining Corporation, Normandy Mining and Sons of Gwalia. In 2007, Cutifani left Inco Limited, where he held the p...

Bryony returns in Season 11 this week, sitting down with her longtime friend Solitaire Townsend. Solitaire is Co-founder & Chief Solutionist at Futerra, and Trustee of the Solutions Union. She is a renowned sustainability expert and solutionist. From Google to the United Nations, Ikea to WWF, Solitaire works with the worlds’ most influential organisations to activate social justice and environmental restoration. Over two decades she has led the movement towards solutions, hope and optimism with numerous publications and keynotes at the UN, MIT, Ted and many more. She was named “Ethical Entrepreneur of the Year” in 2008 and more recently chair of the UK...